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ch00se last won the day on May 24 2014

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About ch00se

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  1. Thanks! Also, how do you determine ranking? FGL is the largest distributor of HTML5 games in the world for both web and mobile by number of games and reach (number of markets). We may very well be the largest as far as developer payout and impressions on games, but I don't know enough data from other companies.
  2. Would be great to see FGL in there!
  3. Hey Inga, Have you checked out FGL? I know we have a few hundred, or more, html5 dress up games. Feel free to contact me with questions as well (chris (at)
  4. ch00se

    FGL Phaser Plugin!

    Hey everyone, FGL's HTML5 SDK now has a Phaser plugin. Check out the info here: Let us know if you have any questions.
  5. Hey, we were mentioned in that podcast, woohoo. If anyone has specific pointers or insights to this topic I'd love to hear them as well. If you've done contract work I'd really love to hear from you if you're willing to share any sales data. I'll be presenting on where to make money in HTML5 game development at Casual Connect and the only space I feel I am not very familiar with is the contract space. But I'd love any data you'd like to share (even outside of contracts... and I would give you credit if I use it).
  6. Hey everyone, I just wanted to point out that some HTML5 games going through FGL are currently being featured on Amazon. If you have the Amazon Android app, or a Kindle, be sure to check out the featured spot for "Explore Indie Games". If you want to help support your fellow indies be sure to give a few of the games a play, and maybe even a rating!
  7. Yes, we take 30% of ongoing revenue, but we also work to market your games as well as make sure they monetize in the best way possible. For example we have an ad system where we monitor cpms daily and switch out ad networks based on performance. We also have deals with most marketplaces where we get special promotions. Currently, for the $200 deal we're only asking for Amazon and Big Rebel distribution, but we still take games if you want to cover one or both on your own. Licensing is still where most people are making money right now anyway. Also, any deals we bring can always be turned down, so there's no risk to having games on our system (for example, lets say we do a deal with Apple for iOS and offer that as an option... we will send out a request to all devs to add their game and you can make a decision to take it or not). That said, we'd probably roll new partners into our $200 offer, if we keep it going. So, long story short, there's nothing to lose, only gain, but for the $200 advance we're asking to push the game through Amazon and Big Rebel. If your game is already on Amazon, you can let us know and we may be able to still push it through us with some minor changes. Depends on the game.
  8. We do have a quality standard. But as long as your game is original (not directly copied from a tutorial) and is fun and it's obvious you put time into it, you can make up to $200 up front through our current promotion: The point of our system is actually to make you even more money, though. We help sell licenses on your game as well as distribute it to mobile marketplaces and portals for you.
  9. Hey Everyone, I wanted to chime in here as this is a bit in my wheelhouse. First, I merely want to state some actual data points we've seen at FGL. No hypothesis or theory from me (that's later!). This is for the Flash market only, just to show what happened there. Looking at data between 2009 (when we started tracking things more closely) and 2011 (the height of the Flash game market) 1. The total amount of money going into Flash games went up (doubled) 2. The total amount of games approved on FGL went up (around 70% increase) 3. The total amount spent on each game went up slightly for non-exclusives and mid-to-low tier sponsorships, and massively for top content for sponsorships 4. The total number of deals went up (around 65% increase) 5. As games got older, they still did sell (still do!) but the value of the game decreased in direct proportion to two main factors: Age of the game, and quality of the game (mostly on the quality) So, basically, more money came in, more games came in, more deals happened, prices remained about flat except for the highest quality games. The secondary takeaway is that older games still sell! As long as a game is made well and is fun, we continually find buyers. In fact, we have a deal in the works with Rich for a game he made in 2009! (Now if he'd only finish the deal up ) Now, I have no idea if this will hold for HTML5. Right now, the HTML5 market is very different than Flash back in the day. The emphasis by publishers then was on getting the best games and sponsoring them to drive traffic to your site. That very well may happen with HTML5, but for right now, it's mostly on the companies interested in HTML5 trying to build up their libraries. Here's my guess: There is a brief window where companies are willing to pay very high sums of money for non-exclusives (I'd consider this to be in the $1k+ range) for all ranges of quality. I think we're actually already mostly outside this window. This is due to lack of supply (companies who want HTML5 games don't have a large pool of games to choose from). As thousands of games become available to license, this money will be spread out. I think we're mainly in this window right now. Here's some good news, though. The second part of my guess is that we have yet to seen the influx of companies looking for HTML5 games. I think there will be many coming into the market. This is what we saw at FGL. And this is to Rich's point... the companies we're working with now won't necessarily have more money to spend per game as time goes on, but new companies coming in will have budgets all of their own. So even though your game may have sold for $1,000 before, and now only for $500, you now have more people buying a license. There's no way to know how big the market will be. The potential is certainly huge (And FGL is banking on it being huge). But I think it's pretty safe to say it will at least be bigger than it currently is. So we will see more money flowing, if anything. But remember: as more money comes in, so do more developers and games. Now, I didn't even touch on "sponsorships" or revenue share from mobile marketplaces. My hope is that both add significant revenue earned by each game. Sponsorships have yet to be proven in HTML5... but I think there's a strong chance for it to happen (and we're definitely pushing for it). Mobile marketplaces are already showing promise with HTML5. My hope is that in the near future there won't be a need to "wrap" a game to work in most major marketplaces. And we're seeing marketplaces pop up already looking for straight up HTML5 games. But, since the original question was about non-exclusives I'll stick to that. -AAG- you bring up a really good point in your first post: "old" HTML5 games are actually hindered by limited technology and requirements even months ago. So, we're not even talking about the market stabilizing, we're talking about the tech and accepted development practices changing! This makes it a very hard question to answer for the games we currently consider "old". In general, I'd say you should charge the same for a game you made a few months ago or even a year ago and one you made now, but if that game can't play sounds, or can't do things that are required based on new standards... then that's just not the case. So, I'll leave the tech issues aside and say: prices should stabilize around $400 for non-exclusives. Older games should not need to go lower if you have a good game. If your game isn't in the "average" quality range then I'd suggest moving the price down to catch bargain hunters you may otherwise miss, or package the game into deals with better games you have. Also remember you don't have to charge one price. You should have different prices for different levels of involvement (how much work is it for you, do you get links, do you get rev share..) in my $400 number I'm assuming a little work (branding + reasonable API) on the developer end and rev share if available. More work = you should charge more. Also, be very wary of companies offering only rev share. If people can get your game for free, why would they ever pay you? This also drives prices down across the board. You should only ever do this if there is a long standing history of developers making money through rev share with that company (for example, we only suggest this through FGL with a few companies such as Yahoo, and Microsoft... again this is for non-exclusives, not mobile marketplaces etc..).
  10. Currently we don't, but that is very easily done. Right now we're keeping it separated a bit as we have special deals for promotion of HTML5 games with the marketplaces we're currently working with.
  11. I think gemcrush is fun Remember that ad earnings come from two factors: cpm and plays. In this case relaxx had quite a good cpm at first, and you can see how the revenue directly followed the downloads (installs). We also got the game into an Amazon promotion so that helped. We are working on future promotions as well, and we're about to increase the number of games we submit, so the cross promotion from game to game will increase as well. We already see this working well with our native mobile platform.
  12. The way FGL ads work is we actually change out ads depending on what is performing best at the time. So you never have to worry about what ad network to use, we use them all and track which ones do best This is for HTML5, native mobile, and Flash web as well. Right now we're seeing cpms anywhere from $1 to $5. On Amazon we're getting around $10 with our system. To the points about different publishers wanting things differently, our system will automatically stop ads if the publisher pays you a license to remove ads (you set your price for this). Basically, you put everything in, and our system will pull out whatever is needed for a publisher if they're willing to pay for it.
  13. Yes, you should definitely keep your logos in your game unless someone pays you to remove/replace them. Yes, you should make sure to retain your IP unless someone is willing to pay more for it (or you no longer want it).
  14. Hey Everyone, About our current offering. True, it may not be for everyone. But I wanted to clarify what we were offering: - we are paying $200 just to have your game on our platform. Our current promotion is to get the game in three markets, but we plan to add more in the future. If we do add them, and there is a license component, we will pass that money on to you. We will not merely take the money. Any money earned at all is cut with our usual 70/30 platform cut. So, the $200 is not your traditional license deal. We're not putting the game up on our site or anything like that. So it really can't be compared. In fact, this is an offer we will probably be removing in the near future.. we're just wanting to drum up interest. The deals we work out with Amazon and BigRebel etc for promotion of games is worth a lot more to developers than the $200. - I wanted to clarify what our API does. It is pretty cool: any new marketplace that opens up, we can get your game on it with very little to no work. So, if we can get an upfront amount and good rev share for your game.. you can possibly take it with no extra work. Our API will automatically update to handle ads, in game purchases, cross promotion, etc... - We will not push your game anywhere without your permission (we do offer the ability for you to give us that automatic permission if you want, though) So if you don't feel we're offering a good deal... just don't take it. - You can pick and choose what markets you want to push your game to. Don't feel like you have to go into ever market we offer. If you just want to get special promotion on Amazon, then do that. If you just want to get on Big Rebel to see how that works, choose that option only. It's up to you I see that with the html5 community we have to build up our respect. In Flash, everyone knows that we are always on the side of the developer. We revolutionized the web game industry by advocating for developers. We want to do the same here. FGL wants to trailblaze for html5 devs. That has to start somewhere, so we're starting it here. The reality is, as some of you pointed out, the way market works for html5 games is different than other mobile games, and Flash games. So we are having to think outside the box. Our mobile platform for html5 games isn't just to get on new marketplaces, though that is a great opportunity. It will also allow us to help you license your games. It will help us bring you new opportunities with ads, and in-game purchases, and other technologies that come around in this space. It is exciting, and I really think our platform will help push things forward more quickly than they would happen otherwise. And as usual, if you have suggestions to make things better, let us know!
  15. Hey everyone, I wanted to give you an update as it has been a while. One of the deals I had mentioned before is now finalized. We have a deal with Amazon where they will feature HTML5 games we send them prominently in their app store over the next 3 months. So, if you don't have a game on FGL please contact us so I can try your game out and we can work to get it up ASAP. Ideally, they want the games up by the 10th of this month, so we'd have to move fast! There is an API to implement, and we've found many games need some optimization to work on their platform, so there may need to be some tweaking even if your game works great on mobile now. Here's a direct contact if you're interested: Matt ( He can help you get going, and answer any questions you have. It's always easiest for us if your game is actually on FGL, but if it isn't you can still shoot Matt an email with a link to your game and we can try to go from there.