Pierre Glibert

WebGl and webGpu

Recommended Posts

Threading is a Javascript issue.  It lacks a memory model which allows memory sharing / control across threads.  I never see that happening without a lot of things happening.  Java had a multi-threaded memory model day one.  Not a trivial change.

Also, I have used OpenGL & OpenCL on Java.  There is still only one thread that can actually 'talk' to the graphics context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta love Apple sometimes :) .. 

>"The major platform technologies in this space are Direct3D 12 from Microsoft, Metal from Apple, and Vulkan from the Khronos Group. While these technologies have similar design concepts, unfortunately none are available across all platforms."

>"So Apple, the only company not supporting Vulkan on their platforms, is complaining that there isn't a cross-platform solution?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Kesshi said:

Sharing memory between workers is planned feature for ECMAScript 2017:
http://www.2ality.com/2017/01/shared-array-buffer.html

This level of sharing buffers is probably the best that can be done.  Not as useful as actually sharing Objects across threads, which other languages can do.  It says only integers can be in the array so far.  That is a killer for being of any kind of use for us.

If you could also do FloatArrays, a worker thread pool might be helpful for calculating all the world matrices of Meshes or Bones.  You would probably need to reorganize the render loop.  It is optimized for single threaded, and that is usually bad for thread pools, especially if the only operations parallelize able involve arrays.  What complicates this is world matrices are affected by the world matrices of the parent chain. 

SIMD seems just as good without any re-org.  It is also already implemented, but turned off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's all about money in this world.

Also most of you are programmers working in a small or big company. Your friends working in the same company,  your children probably going to a school with a logo of the company. I'm a barbie girl in a barbie world. 
And the other guys  are managers. No one of them cares about anything rather that pushing a product and gain the value of sells. This is his job and he is good at it. That why, the programmers can pay their bills.

WebGL, WebGL 2 this is only a name with a value nothing else. Their are many books, events, magazine tiles has to be filled with the Headline WebGL2 how awesome it is, how to make a good app of of it and at least the disadvantages of it. 
You as a programer thinking about the backward compatibility of the backward compatibilities, this is kind of your job, the thing you are passionate about.

And Number One and Number Two Company (Google, Apple) if any of them says we are working on a new Web Standard, (whatever that is) you, as a programer, can influence it is some way, but not at all. I think these two companies also showing balls each other, but their are working in some areas closer than Microsoft and Google, Apple. Its kind of sad that cheap and save OS for everyone shipped Browser like Edge etc. and has a lack of supporting new Technologie, but again, this is  a programer way of thinking. Through history a culture (company) with better knowledge in technologies (like wartechnologie) will dominate over a less developed.
There a reason why -nobody get paid to put 2 lines of Code needed to get Browser Support for like WebXY6554, you as a programmer get angry about it becouse thats you passion.

AND We will never know the truth for sure. :) 

any of thouse reporter guys are making a living out of just by typing WebGPU on publish it (marteting) 
https://www.google.de/search?q=webgpu&tbm=nws

 

yeah so my english is not that well, to write a understandable article

The point of my text is: It is not about WebGL it is not about WebGL2, or WebGPU its about a product a brand

 

 

webgpu.JPG

feb/16/2017

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@letsbrostudio -

I hope this doesn't piss too many people off, but WebGPU can bite my sack. Apple has been the biggest nightmare and control freaks I've had to deal with for more than 20 years. They have cost me loads of money and resources trying to play their game strictly by their rules, and I wised up years ago and never looked back. At least @Pryme8 is looking forward to WebCL, which looks promising, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. As for WebGPU, I wouldn't touch this with anothers dev's coding stick.

Just my opinion, so please don't hate on me. Although, I still hold complete contempt for Apple and wish they would be willing to join the rest of us and get off their unrealistic Godly high horse; or simply go away.

Enough said. :D

DB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@dbawel You know that Appel own 89% of creative industry form Pro-Tools to Final Cut, WebGL etc. WebGL, WebGL2, WebGPU are Appel Products, this company was at the very beginning of first draft. Yes,everything has its upside and its down side.

Have a nice day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, like I said, opinions here probably have a very low impact.  Sounds like anyone could join that group if they wanted to.  Will say, Apple really needs to put out WebGL 2.0, or they are probably going to face pitch forks.  Hard to know where anything is with them, since all test stuff is NDA.  For a commercial concern, the fees are not that high to buy your way in though.

Think that since most people, even commercial projects, are not going use this without a framework, more empathis should be on our actual problems.  The various frameworks are getting better and better.  You can spend an enormous amount of time starting from scratch.  PlayCanvas seems to think shader compile time is a major bottle neck.  Point is, we are the customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Nabroski said:

@dbawel You know that Appel own 89% of creative industry form Pro-Tools to Final Cut, WebGL etc. WebGL, WebGL2, WebGPU are Appel Products, this company was at the very beginning of first draft. Yes,everything has its upside and its down side.

Have a nice day!

What???

WebGL is definitely not from Apple! It has started as an experiment inside Mozilla: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL and now WebGL and WebGL 2 are driven by the Khronos group where most of the major browsers vendors are: https://www.khronos.org/ where Mozilla is still leading a lot the game. 

Apple has done a terrible job in implementing WebGL (like a lot of recent web technologies such as IndexedDB) and it's probably why they want also to ship their own stuff like WebGPU. 

Before suggesting creating a new standard, it would be cool if they first implement properly stuff everybody is using today.

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny, @dbawel Actually OpenCL IS from Apple / NVidia, which is what WebCL is very likely to be based.  I did not mention cause it did not advance any argument.

If one were to look at the WebGL 2 standard, you will see the co-author bi-line is the same as the author of the WebGPU blog post.  So, I guess they actually did write that standard, but how about implementing it, maybe with ASTC exposed like Metal, not just PVRTC.  Maybe more than minimum the  # of vertex uniforms.  Actually customer requirements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@getzel

(AMD+Appel )->Mantle->  AMD ->Vulkan. (and btw since when people play games on a mac)

 

@davrous i remember it. Firefox 25 a upcoming browser, it was kind of cool to use it.
Working Group, with initial participation from Apple, Google, Mozilla, Opera
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL 
2 Names
https://www.khronos.org/registry/webgl/specs/latest/1.0/

So this is my point of view how i experience it. 
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.