WaywardSpirit

I hate to be one of these people but.....(self pity rant)

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Hello Everyone (incoming rant alert),

 

So as the title suggest I hate to be one of these people that posts "Can this make this kind of game?" type people and I know realistically the answer is usually A) Yes and / or B ) It depends on your skill / resources.I really need to put my brain to rest so much worrying about it but anyways I will get right to it as quickly as possible. So I I love the idea HTML5 presents with being able to make a game and play on any browser you want(for the most part). An the technology is growing, ive been reading different blog posts saying the tech is ready to enter into mainstream video game development, but what if I dont want to make games that are JUST casual style games? I want to actually be able to build story driven games and action rpg games as well, It is just me right now but I hope to get good enough with a particular method to be able to actually get some other people together to make a decent team. I do have friends that are Artist but I dont want to bother them until I actually have some skills to show for it. 

I have picked up GameMaker Studio for a bit now, attempting to relearn it but GMS2 although it looks and functions as a great engine alot of stuff bugs me about it. I liked the simple clean interface of GMS1.4, but Yoyo has made it clear they wont make a GMS2 UI similar to GMS1.4 cant blame them for that. I am sure I will get used to it eventually, but it bugs me that GML is only useful inside GMS other then general logic. Then that brings me to Unity, once again a great / powerful engine but c# is hard for me to learn and the inability for their web export to support mobile browsers kinda bugs me I would like to be able to make multi browser games or atleast have it an option you know? So finally Phaser(or some similar Js framework) Ive seen some wonderful examples of it "Tale of the Undead Princess" really caught my eye, not to mention Html5 is knowledge I can take outside of GameDevelopment into a real world job.I guess I am not really worried about whether or not Phaser can be used to create the kind of games I want, but would It be like reinventing the wheel / more difficult using it vs an Engine like GMS or Unity? I really just kinda dont know, my basic thought process for the last few weeks has been something like......Well, Unity is a powerful engine I can use it for 2D and 3D, but I really dont care about 3D right now so if my main focus is 2D why not use an actual 2D engine, one thats built for 2D not added better 2D support along the lines. So GameMaker Studio, but wait GML? Okay I can understand It somewhat but what about outside GMS? What use would it be then, might as well go Phaser.js it seems to be able to create the kind of 2D games GMS can, and Html5 is pretty useful for WebDevelopment so yay bonus points! What if I want to hit a console specific device though? I could wrap it using Phonegap or Coccoon.js or some similar type of wrapper.....but I might as well go GMS then which I think compiles it into a more native form and isnt just a webview.....but Unity has more console options then GMS and I have to buy the exports I would want to use......" You get the idea right? my brain then just loops back around never ending.

I really need to sit down and focus to learn one engine/framework and stick with it but my brain is so indecisive as to what I want to use. If Phaser.js (assuming I have the right experience / skills) can make the kind of games I want then I would be happy to stick with it...then probably learn Unity in the future if I ever want 3D.  I want to be able to make games like Momodoro or Deaths Gambit combat Rpgs or story driven games. I guess I can just suck it up and Use GMS2 though...I dunno. The trouble is I know what I want, but I dont know what I need or what is right for me.

 

TL:DR: When it comes to 2D for multiple platforms / Ease of use. What do you guys prefer Phaser or GMS1.4(GMS2)?

 

Thanks for reading and sorry for the possible facepalms you guys my have suffered from reading this post. 

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If you're planning to deploy not only HTML5 games, but also mobile versions (not wrapped HTML5 builds with tools like Intel XDK), GMS is a good choice – and the main reason is that you still can use JS via extension system, which allows to communicate with different APIs or to implement specific JS functions. However, if you're focused on mobile HTML5 only, Phaser is easier to optimize.

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As in your situation, i suggest you to go with GMS.
and i think, there is already all mainly used platforms export included in GMS

And, it only took me 2 to 3 days to get used to GMS2 UI, its much more better and easy IMO, and GMS2 is still very new, so it will take a bit more time to become bugs-free.

Have a nice day!

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7 hours ago, WaywardSpirit said:

Thank you both for your response, I think I will stick with GMS2. That UI though is a major departure from their previous in 1.4, Ill get used to it though one way or another.

It's much better choice to use GMS 1.4 now – GMS2 is still in beta and have a lot of bugs. Although, you can check, which functions were changed or removed in GMS2 and code in GMS1 to reach maximum code compatibility without GMS2-generated compatibility scripts.

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4 hours ago, Spyro23 said:

It's much better choice to use GMS 1.4 now – GMS2 is still in beta and have a lot of bugs. Although, you can check, which functions were changed or removed in GMS2 and code in GMS1 to reach maximum code compatibility without GMS2-generated compatibility scripts.

@Spyro23 I want to you clarify that GMS2 is out of beta now, its stable version is officially released by yoyogames, I agree that it has some bugs, but they are minor and are being solved.

I really recommend to go with GMS2 not GMS1.4, i m currently using GMS2 and i really found it better than GMS 1.4

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Im trying to follow along with some HeartBeast Udemy tutorials I have had laying around, trying to it for GMS2. Difficult but I have a list of obsolete functions tabbed so slow going but sorta still going. Havent figured out how to scrolling backgrounds yet so kinda skipped that part.

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What if you arent just going for the ability to make html5 games, but also console specific like Desktop? I know Elliots Quest was made using Impact.js as is a pretty cool game, but would something like that have been better off made in an Engine like GMS or similar engine? 

1 hour ago, scheffgames said:

Phaser all the way. You have complete control over how your game behaves and looks. If you're a decent coder that is and with the downside that it might take a bit more to develop in Phaser then in GM but it will get better with time as you develop your own lib.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, WaywardSpirit said:

What if you arent just going for the ability to make html5 games, but also console specific like Desktop? I know Elliots Quest was made using Impact.js as is a pretty cool game, but would something like that have been better off made in an Engine like GMS or similar engine? 

Then it's a pretty easy choice - Unity. Unity it's an awesome engine which uses an awesome scripting language (C#) with an awesome workflow and ease of use. Too awesome almost. :) Speed of game dev it's greatly increased in Unity (as is greater graphical quality) and it's a good oportunity to learn C# which could be useful later in your career.  I would've used it for HTML5 games if it were only able to use Canvas renderer instead of WebGL only. 

I've tried some other combos for game dev - C and SDL, Unreal and C++ (altough briefly) - but for small team / solo devs nothing beats Unity. There are some emerging engines that look promising (like Godot) but Unity has been battle tested over and over and it didn't fall short.

 

 

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I agree learning unity would be in anyones best interest for development as part of the toolset but if my only goal for the forseable future is 2D games and webgames for multiple devices usung the browser then it falls down to using an engine/framework actually designed for 2D. Not like unity where, although 2D support is growing it was more of an afterthought.

Edited by WaywardSpirit
*part

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On 2017-5-4 at 3:19 AM, danyburton said:

unity is ebola, [...]

:lol:

@WaywardSpirit

You can't have the best of every world. 

I didn't try GM AFAICR, but I'd assume, for 2D, performance-wise:

"Native": GM > (Unity || Phaser) 

Web: Phaser > GM > Unity 

In my experience Unity is heavy, resource hungry, slow... That's why I'm comparing it's native performance to Phaser in a wrapper, but I could be very wrong. 

You just have to decide what you want to do or achieve and plan accordingly. Focus on one goal at a time. You've already stated you'd focus on 2D development for starters; that, for me, rules out Unity altogether. Now, web or desktop/phone? Choose one and stick with it for the meantime. If you want maximum market visibility, you'll go either with web or phone and drop desktop. I don't know if GM can deploy to Android/IOS or how it performs. If it can't or performs badly, then go with Phaser or other js engine and focus on web. Or find an engine that could perform better in phone such as libGDX and focus on phone. 

From there, you can always move into different technologies as your needs change over time. To a good extent, programming is programming, and engines are engines, and the concepts are going to remain about the same, so there's an inherent common knowledge base to all them, and no knowledge is lost; whatever you'll learn from one could only benefit you for the next one, despite having to learn a different language, or working scheme. Hope you get my point. 

Now, whatever your game development plans aside, if you want to economize efforts to maximize yield for your career, you'll probably have more opportunities with a js engine coding background (as it has way more applications than just games) than what you'd get by mastering GM. But it's also true that js is easier than C# or Java, and your career would benefit from mastering these. 

So based on the aforementioned, and given that there's just no good reason not to go for maximum visibility, my opinion is that you should go with either Phaser or some such js engine for web, or libGDX or so for phone. Given that you can both use a wrapper for phaser, for phone and desktop, and libGDX can deploy to web, phone and desktop, it's a matter of testing and comparing their performance in each worst cases, and deciding if you'll focus on mastering js and web technologies or Java. 

Good luck. 

And BTW where's the rant? :lol:  That falls short of my concept of ranting. 

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I think it depends on your end goal. It doesn't really matter how many artist friends you have, or what type of game you want to make imho, what matters is how much money you're going to spend on this, and what sort of return you are expecting.

If you need to make income from this game, and are going to fund it to a level where it will need to exist in stores like Steam, or even potentially on console one day, then I would either stick with GM2 or move to Unity, and drop the idea of web entirely. If you're not expecting to invest any money in this, but it's more of a 'pet project' because you just happen to like RPG games, then I would say pick whatever you can work fastest in (which is likely to be GM2 for this sort of game)

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@ecv  Thank you very much for taking the time to type out that long reply. Trust me, It sounded way more ranty in my head.An I always disliked reading one of those "Can this engine build an mmorpgfps/rts!, we just started out and we really want to build this awesome type of game and make tons of money."  On forums and I feel that is what I am doing now. I want to learn Javascript but I think I will do it outside the a game development mindset for a bit and probably stick with GMS, If I ever want to venture into 3D Ill take a look at another option from there. Ive heard JS is similar to GML but I dont really see the similarities, maybe because I havent dug far enough into each one? I dunno.....

 

@rich I guess my end goal would be tto be able to create / sell web game licenses but to also be able to spend time on large projects that can also tell a great story that captivates players? Probably unrealistic at the moment and I should focus on one of those goals for 2017. I think ill stick with GMS because it does currently fit the bill and does work fast but I really cant wait to see what you have planned next for phaser/Lazer. When I was doing some of the tutorials I got I really kinda had fun doing them. So I think ill always keep a base knowledge of it so It wont take me as long to relearn it if I ever want to switch over to it fully. I guess them pet projects would be fair, I dont mind spending money into it and fully expect to as long as my bills are paid off. I am really both proud and ashamed at myself because I did sell a web game to someone who wanted an item game to give out promo  codes. I made it in GMS and looking back on the project file and seeing the mistakes I made and things I should of handled a little better I kinda am ashamed because I keep thinking how did I ever sell it.....Anyways, I guess it would be starting out as a pet project but hopeful career sometime in the late future. 

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I would question if there is any financial value in long-form story games on the casual web. I think generally the demand is for small offerings, the sort of thing you can have a quick play of during a lunch break. For more involved gaming experiences I tend to see them wrapped in their own niche communities. Which you could certainly build of course.

If you've already got a day job, and are doing this for fun, then focus on making the sort of game you love - just keep it realistic in terms of scope, so you stand a chance of finishing it. And if it's a large story-driven project then great, work on building or joining a community that likes those sorts of games. I don't think it will do all that well trying to sell it to casual portals though - but that doesn't mean you can't make money from it.

If what you want to do is make more web games to sell, then I'd honestly pick a different genre.

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6 minutes ago, rich said:

I would question if there is any financial value in long-form story games on the casual web. I think generally the demand is for small offerings, the sort of thing you can have a quick play of during a lunch break. For more involved gaming experiences I tend to see them wrapped in their own niche communities. Which you could certainly build of course.

If you've already got a day job, and are doing this for fun, then focus on making the sort of game you love - just keep it realistic in terms of scope, so you stand a chance of finishing it. And if it's a large story-driven project then great, work on building or joining a community that likes those sorts of games. I don't think it will do all that well trying to sell it to casual portals though - but that doesn't mean you can't make money from it.

If what you want to do is make more web games to sell, then I'd honestly pick a different genre.

I apologies, I didnt clarify what I wanted to do on each platform. For me its more like...casual games for web, larger story or more action orientated games for pc/mobile. You are right there probably isnt any sort of market for long form story games for web right now, its more like what game can I load up quickly and play while waiting in the car or something. 

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Because I wanted the opportunity to do it, and at the same time to use a language that wasnt only just useful inside its own IDE(GML) although logic does remain the same anyways so I shouldnt let that bug me very much anymore. 

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7 hours ago, rich said:

Exactly. I think my point was simply if you don't need to be making casual web games, and your passion lies elsewhere, then don't make casual web games :) 

Very well put! I would say though that making casual web games teaches you a lot about UXD and the importance of nice graphics - which you can apply later in your "dream" project. It also teaches you how to FINISH a game which is a very important skill. :)

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10 hours ago, WaywardSpirit said:

Im pretty stupid....what is UXD?

"User experience design (UX, UXD, UED or XD) is the process of enhancing user satisfaction with a product by improving the usability, accessibility, and pleasure provided in the interaction with the product."

I also learnt the term recently. :)

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